“The pre-history of our species is hag-ridden with episodes of nightmarish ignorance and calamity, for which religion used to identify, not just the wrong explanation but the wrong culprit.”
These words by Christopher Hitchens in the Introduction to his book The Portable Atheist – Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever (De Capo Press, 2007) summarises the problem religion still causes in society.
Hitchens’s book is absolute essential reading for anyone who claims to have a critical mind and who wants to counter the preposterous arguments so often used by believers who see no conflict between the findings of science and the tenets of religious beliefs. He introduces the development and growth of the island of nonbelievership and science amidst a sea of ignorance and religious beliefs through the words of atheists: essays and questions on religion and rational thinking by Lucretius, Omar Khayyám, Thomas Hobbes, Benedict de Spinoza, David Hume, James Boswell, Percy Bysshe Shelley, John Stuart Mill, Karl Marx, George Eliot, Charles Darwin, Leslie Stephen, Anatole France, Mark Twain, Joseph Conrad, Thomas Hardy, Emma Goldman, H.L. Mencken, Sigmund Freud, Albert Einstein, George Orwell, Bertrand Russell, Carl Sagan, John Updike, Michael Shermer, Daniel Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Victor Stenger, Elizabeth Anderson, Steven Weinberg, Salman Rushdie, Sam Harris, A.C. Grayling, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others.
Hitchens quotes from Albert Camus’s La Peste (The Plague) when Dr. Rieux thinks about the reaction of the town of Oran, “celebrating its recovery from – its survival of – a terrible visitation of disease.” The analogy is clear, that a biological pestilence mowing down vulnerable people is very similar to the way religion casts it spell over the minds of a “plague-stricken people”, destroying their ability to think rationally and to deal with the challenges the real world puts in their daily lives.
Hitchens writes human “sacrifices were made preeminently in times of epidemics, useless prayers were uttered, bogus ‘miracles’ attested to, and scapegoats – such as Jews or heretics or witches – hunted down or burned. The few men of science and reason and medicine had all they could to keep their libraries and laboratories intact, or their very lives from harm. Of course, when the evil had ‘passed over,’ there were equally idiotic ceremonies of hysterical thanksgiving, propitiating whatever local deities there may be…”
The severe criticism I have experienced as an atheist journalist writing about science for newspapers in the Media24 group and as former science editor of Die Burger – and now again because I cast a sceptic blanket over the hysteria of the Angus Buchan phenomenon – reminds me of the excellent novel by the Oxford author Iain Pears, The Dream of Scipio.
In it the stern religious dogmatist Caius Valerius complains when his friend Lucontius jests about the way the discoveries of science were making inroads into the beliefs of Christians in 5th century Roman Gaul near Avignon. “Surely I speak only the truth? Surely we see the Revelations of our Lord solely through Greek eyes? Even Saint Paul was a Platonist,” Lucontius jokes.
“I do not know what you mean,” Caius replies. “The truth is told to me in the Bible. I need no Greek words to tell me what I see there.”
Pears describes Caius Valerius as a coarse man “who wrapped himself in piety like a suffocating blanket.” And: “Caius was one of those who gloried in his ignorance, called his lack of letters purity, scorned any subtlety of thought or expression. A man for his time, indeed. Once, and not so long ago, he would have fallen silent in embarrassment at his lack of knowledge; now it was the knowledgeable who had to mind their tongues” (my italics).
Angus Buchan, pastor Fred May of Shofar, the religious fundamentalists running (and ruining) the minds of the United States of America, these are all modern day Caius Valeriuses. When one reads the letters of support for Buchan in the Afrikaans media, criticising poor Lina Spies for daring to point out the superficiality of his message in an excellent column in the weekly supplement By, the need for science to make its voice heard loudly and clearly becomes so much more urgent.
As Pears points out through the character of Julien Barneuve, “saintliness was hysteria, miracles naturally occurring phenomena misunderstood by the simple, belief mere self-delusion. A rigorous education in science was the antidote to all such afflictions” (my italics).
The “tentacles of superstition” ensnaring the minds of believers through the preachings of Angus Buchan, Fred May, Benny Hinn, TD Jakes, Pope Benedictus XVI, and thousands other misleaders of vulnerable, gullible minds can only be decimated by taking up the sharp scissors of science.
Hitchens’s analogy between the plague bacillus in Camus’s novel and the religious virus is very apt. He writes, quoting Camus’s character Dr. Rieux:
“No the fact is that the bacilli are always lurking in the old texts and are latent in the theory and practice of religion. This anthology (The Portable Atheist) hopes to identify and isolate the bacilli more precisely, and also to vindicate Dr. Rieux by giving prominence to those who, then and now, have always counterposed enlightenment to the bane:
The record of what had to be done, and what assuredly would have to be done again in the never-ending fight against terror and its relentless onslaughts, despite their personal afflictions, by all who, while unable to be saints but refusing to bow down to pestilences, strive their utmost to be healers.
May the healing of ensnared religious minds begin with this excellent anthology compiled by Hitchens.
Thoughtful and interesting post, thanks. You’ve certainly convinced me to buy the book…
The Spies piece, by the way, is here: http://www.dieburger.com/Stories/Features/By/18.0.898059327.aspx
Comment by Michael Meadon — September 26, 2008 @ 1:44 pm |
Christopher Hitchens’ prose is an absolute delight to read – black forest cake and then some. That alone already merits immediate begging, borrowing or stealing of any book with which he was involved. The genre he operates in as a critic of religion is the thick’n’yummy icing on the top. The list of authors in the book – a veritable who’s who of atheist thinkers – is a huge draw card for much the same reason: Hitchens will probably have had some say in their selection, and included most of them not only because of their relevance but also because they could write.
I just can’t wait to get my grubby paws on a copy!
Comment by Con-Tester — September 26, 2008 @ 1:58 pm |
Great book. I got myself one a while ago. It is thick and heavy as well, just in case you need to whack a caveman over the head with it in self defence.
Comment by McBrolloks — September 26, 2008 @ 2:54 pm |
If anyone wants a copy of the audio MP3 version of this book I can mail a CD to you. Email me your address to McBrolloks@hotmail.com
I will gladly mail it to Savage, Con-Tester, Objective, Oubaas, Oom Stoffel, Hendrik, Renier and the other bloggers here.
Comment by McBrolloks — September 26, 2008 @ 3:38 pm |
Great read. Also looks great on your bedside table next to the bible.
Comment by Oubaas — September 26, 2008 @ 4:18 pm |
Hmm, comments seem to be disappearing once again.
Comment by Con-Tester — September 26, 2008 @ 6:48 pm |
Oubaas #5
Are you saying I have to get a bible too?
Comment by Objective — September 26, 2008 @ 7:39 pm |
McBrolloks wrote (#4 or thereabouts):
That’s a very kind and generous offer, one I might well take you up on. That is, if I can’t find the book soon – as in “this weekend.”
Oubaas wrote (#5 or thereabouts):
The deleted link is to another blog where a photo of a bible with a sticker on the cover is posted. The sticker reads as follows:
Comment by Con-Tester — September 26, 2008 @ 8:07 pm |
By the way George, I just noticed I’m in your brogroll… Thanks! But… you got my blog name wrong.
. You’ve piped “Effortless Incitement” (which, by the way, is an excellent SA science blog) to my blog’s url (http://ionian-enchantment.blogspot.com/).
Oh… I hate to advertise but… will SA science / sceptical bloggers please get in touch with me? I’ve launched an initiative to foster better cooperation between SA (and African) bloggers: http://ionian-enchantment.blogspot.com/2008/08/south-african-science-blogging-update.html
Comment by Michael Meadon — September 26, 2008 @ 9:30 pm |
Okay, on the fourth attempt, I eventually found a copy of The Portable Atheist. In each case, I asked for it by name at the counter. Inevitably, I got some odd looks, either from other patrons or from one or other of the shop attendants. I couldn’t resist loudly adding, “It’s a collection of essays showing how stupid religion basically is. Everyone should read it.” Needless to say, that earned me more looks and even a shake of the head in one case.
All in all, it’s been a good day so far.
Comment by Con-Tester — September 27, 2008 @ 9:50 am |
He-he!!!!!!! Lots of book stores hide the atheist and sceptic books. And in some cases the employees will hide them behind other books, and in some cases the fundies will hit the stores and hide these books. I know of a case where George’s “Geloof, bygeloof en ander wensdenkery” got hidden by employees of a major chain, and when inquiries were made by customers if they had this book in stock, they were told no, they don’t, by the employees. It turned out that it was a manager, who is a total jesus freak, who took it upon herself to make sure this book does not fall into anyone’s hands. It got buried underneath piles and piles of books, where nobody would even accidentally stumble upon it. Go figure. There wankers are so insecure, they truelly believe these books are EVIL!!!!!
Comment by McBrolloks — September 27, 2008 @ 3:29 pm |
In Hitchens’ memorable words, “Religion poisons everything” — in this case, it would do so literally. Fortunately, a minimum of sanity prevails.
Comment by Con-Tester — September 27, 2008 @ 5:12 pm |
Objective #7, I’m sure you have one (or two) already
We’re not afraid of books, are we? Last time I burned a book was in standard 6, fearing that my mother would discover a pile of star-studded Scopes I got from our neighbors daughter – what a girl.
You’re right, Con-Tester (#8). My portable atheist is actually on my bed-side table, and the joyful yellow looks stunning next to the somber black leather cover.
Comment by Oubaas — September 27, 2008 @ 5:13 pm |
… I have to add that my bed-side contains more than two books…
Comment by Oubaas — September 27, 2008 @ 5:21 pm |
..table..
Comment by Oubaas — September 27, 2008 @ 5:21 pm |
Day of the Limping Afterthought today, eh Oubaas?
Comment by Con-Tester — September 27, 2008 @ 6:09 pm |
No, that was yesterday. Today is the tomorrow I dreaded, a day (or week?) at the sea, overdosing on oxygen and trying to convince myself that playing Balderdash with the kids is a good thing. It’s a good thing. It must be. Holidays are so off-topic.
Comment by Oubaas — September 27, 2008 @ 6:26 pm |
Oubaas, #12
The Holy QUOR’AN Abdul Majid – 1943
– difference is: unlike most christians i have read most of these books although some of them very briefly and compared various translations of the bible to check on the consitency of an allmighty god whose words are supposed to be fixed in lead and unalterable under threat of eternal punishment.
Gekeurde Gordyn V.E. d’Assonville – 1973
De Boodshap van de Bijbel Otto Weber – 1958
Rigters onder die Suiderkruis. – Dr. N.A. Burger 1997
Redelijke Godsdienst – W. a BRAKEL Th. F. Derde DRuk – a Brakel died 30/10/1711
Engelse Bybel 1898
Hollandse Bybel 1903
Geschiedenis Der Kerk Berkhoff 1955
Verklaring van het Nieuwe Testament Dr. H Bavink 1911
Dogmatische Studien Dr. G. C. Berkhouwer 1966
Waarachtige Geschiedenis Der VROME MARTELAREN (No author – page may be lost – date printed unknown)
From this book page 758: “Bloeddorstige aard, moet gij op teed’re vrouwen woeden,
En jong geboren? Geen hongerige leeuw
Heeft ooit een welp vermoord. Zijn we in Manasses eeuw,
Die zuigelingen wierp in Molochs heete gloeden?
Of bij den wreeden Scyt die menschleden knaagt?
Is’t mogelik dat God deez’ gruwelen verdraagt?”
Gereformeerde Kerkrecht Dr. H Bouwman 1928
Institusie van die Christelike Godsdiens – Johannes Calvyn 1559 CJBF
Potchefstroom 1988.
the list goes on….and it should include a few bibles somewhere…
The beauty of language is captured in a piece that reminds me of Dias’s deathprayer by Van Wyk Louw – “en nou is dit stil en keer ek tot die tyd terug en wend my van die tyd. Nie meer sal ek strewe of begeer nie en is hierdie waters op die middag my teken na die jare dat ek nie onvoltooid gelaat is of voltooid deur eie drang en dwaasheid nie..” (nie presies aangehaal nie ek word oud,)
en dan uit die a Brakel boek:
Geestelike aandachten op de Twaalf Maander des eersten jaars der achttiende eeuw, 1701:
“December, Wintermaand
Zoo loopt het jaar de post ten eind’,
Al rasser dan men merkt of meint.
Dus eindigt ook miin tijd; ‘k ga heen
Om eens, maar eens, dien stap te treen,
Waar de ewigheid aan hangt, o Heer!
Mij voor mijn sterven, sterven leer.
Wend van den tijd mijn oog en lust
Tot de eeuwigheid, mijn ware rust.”
Comment by Objective — September 28, 2008 @ 8:16 am |
Objective, thanks. Lovely poem by Van Wyk Louw.
There was a time when Christian apologists could write, and when they possessed many of the same virtues Con-Tester mentioned in #2. But the suffocating shallowness of most of today’s Christian authors, and their depressing similarity with the New Age Self Help Quantum Kak Cult nuts posing as enlightened guides, is a direct result of the mass exodus of thinking Christians from the god debate after Darwin’s discoveries. These men of letters knew that the war was over. They understood the true implications of the new scientific discoveries, and also that god will never again occupy any intellectual space. Their silence have opened up the way for the charlatans, the prophets with their following of simple souls who are masters at stringing together emotions and presenting these as “proofs” and “facts” and “revelation”. In previous centuries these cults were put down by the Church, the Christian “men of letters”, and obviously the sword. Today, they are the Church. And they are guaranteed “freedom of religion”, posing as concerned citizens and hiding behind feel-good concepts such as “family values”, “pro life”, and “freedom”.
Comment by Oubaas — September 29, 2008 @ 11:18 am |
Oubaas, #19
“They understood the true implications of the new scientific discoveries, and also that god will never again occupy any intellectual space. Their silence have opened up the way for the charlatans, the prophets with their following of simple souls who are masters at stringing together emotions and presenting these as “proofs” and “facts” and “revelation”. ”
Indeed. I am, however, often frustrated by the followers of science who engage in similar rhetoric and who react to irrationality by stringing together emotions and presenting these as proofs of superficial understandings of the principles of science not to mention the scientists who engage in the same.
I am not arguing that all people should be scientists and fully understand the principles of quantum physics or the genetic code. I am merely saying that one must conceptually understand two principles: 1. that only the physical exist and 2. the supremacy of the law of non contradiction.
Nobody can escape the necessity of learning and understanding the basic principles of existence and of human understanding but if one wishes to promote reason you have to do better than simply aping language and behaviour.
” And they are guaranteed “freedom of religion”, posing as concerned citizens and hiding behind feel-good concepts such as “family values”, “pro life”, and “freedom”.”
Perhaps it is time that we who have chosen reason and non contradiction also relinguish our decency and insist on the truth no matter who we offend. I mean we follow Con-Tester’s attitude and speak out loud and then some: we insist that religious broadcast are offensive and they be removed from general stations unless of course some time is allowed for a non religious person to deliver a presentation. They do after all (in the name of fairness) allow the muslims and xtians time on the radio…what about an objective scientist or philosopher who markets reason and logic?
What about our freedom? What about our dignity? what about our family values? what about our “pro-life” claims? what about our right to be heard? (<– evil one this last one but in a socialised society where everything is in the domain of the community we have to use what is available and say so).
Lastly: i weighed the bible many times and found it way too light for my bedside table.
Comment by Objective — September 29, 2008 @ 12:05 pm |
Objective wrote (#20 or thereabouts):
I feel that I must add some mitigating comments here. I am perfectly well aware that more than a few people will be of the opinion that my approach is on the whole too rabid and antagonistic. Obviously, it is their prerogative to hold that position, and they may even turn out to be right in the end. However, when faced with a reasonable argument, it’s rarely my first tack and in truth I’m not always entirely comfortable with it either. There’s no Sun Tzu or Confronting Religious Faith for Dummies or some such; one has to build strategy as one goes along, and one thing I have learnt from observation is that trauma is a more-than-capable educator. Gentleness in argument, while admirably humane, is easy to gloss over and forget. It’s rather more difficult to ignore it when someone dismembers your most cherished and central beliefs with an axe. That way, the thinking person cannot help but see the fragments before trying to put them back together again, and the unthinking person might actually be poked by a shard and notice that something’s amiss. Then again, I might be too optimistic in this view.
Still and all, you are right: in the end, it’s about the truth being far more important than any one person’s sensibilities.
Comment by Con-Tester — September 29, 2008 @ 4:43 pm |
ConpTester, #21
wrote: “Then again, I might be too optimistic in this view.”
I do not think you are too optimistic.
i do think that too often the believers get away with their crap because rational people are too good mannered to challenge their nonsense in public – rational people on average have more respect for other people than the irrational (my experience).
I often think that we were all born into slavery and most of those who recognise the fact would often rather stay in their allotted space than seek their freedom….and i mean by that to speak up and challenge all the time anywhere anyone….
When i was a kid i ran a trap line which i checked every afternoon after school to reset sprung traps and remove captured game/prey. The one trap consisted of a bicycle rim with chicken mesh over the top and a trip mechanism – used primarily to trap birds.
One day i got to this particular trap and there was a dead pigeon inside…all the feathers on its back were gone, scraped off by the mesh as he ran in circles around the rim in an attempt to get out. The grain that served as bait was trampled in the sand…and for some reason it came into my mind that this pigeon valued its freedom more than the food needed to sustain his life ..it would rather be dead than a slave. (no need to say i never reset that trap)
thomas payne wrote: “give me freedom or give me death.” and i know that all that we have to do is assert/claim that freedom but most people choose to remain quietly in slavery rather than challenge…..rahter than speak up.
They say that a child becomes an adult when his parents die..but i say a child becomes an adult when he can tell his parents et al to shove their mysticism. There are many 70 year old orphans who can attest to this truth…who may have doubted their parents wisdom but never challenged it but who remained children after their parents died because they remained with their peers and the rest….whom they could not tell to fuck off either…because they lacked the courage in the first place.
Comment by Objective — September 29, 2008 @ 7:27 pm |
“http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2402157,00.html”
“Son of God”??…. WTF is wrong with these people?
Comment by Renier — October 1, 2008 @ 7:17 am |
Renier #23. The Lotter kids were very likely brought up (by their parents?) to believe any woo-woo with a certain religious flavour. Which made the kids susceptible to believe anything the “son of god” happened to tell them.
So the parents may have been indirectly responsible for their own death.
Comment by Hendrik — October 1, 2008 @ 7:48 am |
The fundies have come back, ready to do battle to preserve Angus Buchan’s messiah-status. It’s Fred May time all over again.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 3, 2008 @ 6:29 am |
Oh cool! I’ll go and have a look. Thanks for the tip CT.
Comment by Renier — October 3, 2008 @ 7:18 am |
Hendrik wrote: “So the parents may have been indirectly responsible for their own death.”
I think you might have a point there. Sad eh?
Comment by Renier — October 3, 2008 @ 1:20 pm |
Renier #27. Yes, quite a few children of the religious get so infected by the woo fed to them by the parents, that they end up being even more fundamentalist and strange than mom and dad.
When these kids out-woo the parents and join some exotic death cult (come to think of it, that description could even fit some mainstream religions…) the parents usually act very surprised.
There is an important lesson here. If you teach your kids not to think sceptically, to believe in invisible friends, to believe things without any scientific proof, to give their money to “prophets”, “sons of god” and “anointed messengers” – then you should not be surprised when they grow up to be irrational individuals without baloney detectors. Ripe for the picking by the Fred Mays, Angus Buchans and Matthew Naidoo’s of the world.
Comment by Hendrik — October 3, 2008 @ 2:55 pm |
A less charitable person (like Con-Tester, just for example
) would argue that the parents could be held directly responsible for their own demise. This kind of shit, after all, doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
George Carlin may have had slightly more than just a humorous point, albeit an uncomfortable one, when he said of warning labels that they should be omitted so that the problem would take care of itself.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 3, 2008 @ 4:47 pm |
East London hosts Citywide Church Initiative for the month of October. The line-up includes Angus Buchan.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 3, 2008 @ 5:04 pm |
Con-tester #29

That reminds me of Denis Leary’s show (it is available on dvd and on cd) “No cure for cancer”. It contains a piece about kids listening to music, killing their parents and then blaming the band because “there were hidden messages in the songs”. Really funny, as is the rest of the show. Denis has another show “Lock and load” which is also very good.
Comment by Hendrik — October 4, 2008 @ 3:57 pm |
Saturday morning I was putting petrol into my wife’s car, when a guy with an American accent approached me and begged for money so he could go and spread the gospel to the one billion atheists in China. Turns out he is a young earth creationist with a calling to be a missionary.
I can only deduce that the US education system is in even deeper doodoo than ours is, particularly with respect to science.
Strange, after our ten minute conversation he did not repeat his request for a donation.
Comment by Hendrik — October 6, 2008 @ 9:37 am |
Re #32. The would-be missionary’s pamphlet contained his email address, so I wrote him the following note:
Hi P,
We met on Saturday morning 4 October at the service station at the split between XX St and AA Rd. I was putting gas in my wife’s car after taking garden refuse to the disposal site. You were begging for money. It seems you want to go spread the “good news” in China, to the more than one billion atheists there.
It was quite a shock to discover that you are what is technically known as a young earth creationist (”YEC” for short). Amongst literate cultures there are not many of you guys around any more. I have only ever come across one other YEC with a tertiary education in PPP. I am sure amongst uneducated peoples the YEC’s are much more common – I certainly ran into a lot of them on business trips to Lagos, Nigeria.
In the long term there are only two possible outcomes for you:
1. You encounter and understand enough science to realise that your current outlook is absolutely untenable, that the earth is more than 4 billion years old and that your Bronze Age book of myths is plain wrong on this subject, as it is on most others. You will go through a period where you are rather embarrassed that you did not see the truth earlier, or
2. You keep your eyes closed to reality and keep convincing yourself that only the Bible is true and everyone and everything else (including science) is wrong. If you take this latter course, your cognitive dissonance (look the term up on Wikipedia) will keep increasing to the point where you are willing to accept any irrational nonsense that the “prophets” and “leaders” of whatever flavour of cult you end up in, feed you. I sincerely hope you avoid this outcome.
All I can suggest, as I did on Saturday, is that you seriously increase the amount of reading you do with regard to science. The internet is the resource that is easiest (and cheapest) to access. Do not start with Kent Hovind. Do not start with the Discovery Institute’s William Dembski. Do not start with the Answers in Genesis website. The people mentioned above are liars (and in the case of Hovind a convicted crook as well) and they have never practiced one single day of honest science. They practice something known as “lying for Jesus” – apparently they feel that the end justifies the means.
There are so many things that I would have liked to discuss with you, but time constraints prohibit this. I find it incredibly sad that someone who was on his way to becoming a productive and happy member of society (as xxx) threw all that away and is now begging for money at a gas station in a third world country. A third world country where a lot of dirt poor people might even give you their hard-earned money to further spread the lies that you have been led to accept. You mentioned that you see your own purpose in life as showing people true happiness and teaching them to be better people. The closest analogy I can think of is that you are offering a cure for the common cold, but as a side effect your “cure” gives the patient terminal cancer! Please do not teach your poor kids the same ignorance that you were taught.
Here is a good place to increase your understanding of science, evolution and scientific dating methods:
["http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html"] You should probably start with this page ["http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html"], where your buddy Hovind’s claims are addressed.
I can only wish you all the best on your journey through life.
Best regards,
Hendrik
(An Afrikaner who only discovered in his mid-thirties that he had been lied to.)
Comment by Hendrik — October 6, 2008 @ 3:05 pm |
Angus Buchan in East London. There’s nothing he can’t fix, apparently. Not even drought’s a problem.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 6, 2008 @ 6:38 pm |
Angus is getting cocky!!!! These messiahs usually do once they have a big following. If it rains after his gathering, he will say, “I told you it would.” If it doesn’t rain, he will say it wasn’t part of gods plan, but eventually, when it rains again, he will say god sent the rain because of the prayers.
Reminds me of that saying: “Die wind waai wes!”
Anyway, it’s quite sad that there are still so many totally delusional people in South Africa, people who have access to information and still insist on staying ignorant. With guys like Angus telling them it’s ok, calluses on your knees is the way to get into heaven. And he is making a killing with all the money god is sending him.
What good has praying ever done for anyone? Sweet blou fokol!!!!
Comment by McBrolloks — October 6, 2008 @ 11:13 pm |
But it is a good way to make yourself immune from responsibility and accountability by saying: “shit, it’s not my fault, it’s just not part of god’s plan, or it is just part of god’s plan”, whichever excuse fits the scenario.
Comment by McBrolloks — October 6, 2008 @ 11:15 pm |
Good one, Hendrik, superb (#33)! Sadly, however, it’ll probably not penetrate where it is most needed.
On a different note, where’s Savage? Lurking, perhaps? Or fed up with fundies? Admittedly, it’s been quiet around here lately.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 8, 2008 @ 8:05 pm |
Hendrik, #83 From: Send God into retirement.
wrote: “ Afrikaans is a beautiful language and more rational works and more rational writers ought to be published in it.</i)
Comment by Hendrik — September 30, 2008 @ 8:27 am
Here is an idea:
Every one of the atheists who regularly comment on this page writes a chapter (in Afrikaans) on his or her experiences with religion and his “convertion” to non belief.
George can act as editor and i will gladly translate for Con-Tester (if required: i think one may even publish an english chapter because he writes beautifully.)
We may even do a chapter or two on the epistemology of science and contrast it with that of religion
– the latter shouldnt take up more than a line or two.
Of course we may add chapters that deals with the offensive nature of religious broadcasts and appeal to the ombudsman that they be removed..or similar topics like the non selling of alcohol on sundays the payment of staff for taking ‘religious holidays’.
Comment by Objective — October 9, 2008 @ 6:05 am |
Objective, it sounds like a good idea. Anyone else keen?
Comment by Renier — October 9, 2008 @ 7:56 am |
Objective #38. Count me in. Seeing as I only respond/act when a deadline is looming, you should probably give us a target date. Otherwise you will receive mine in November. November 2011 that is…
Comment by Hendrik — October 9, 2008 @ 8:18 am |
Objective’s idea is appealing in principle, and I may even contribute, BUT… who will publish such a volume (in Afrikaans nogal), and who will buy it? Remember the Rapport/Deon Maas episode? Freedom of expression (especially in Afrikaans) is wonderful – except when it comes to religion.
Comment by Oom Stoffel — October 9, 2008 @ 8:20 am |
Oom Stoffel has a point. But it would be fun to try and rattle certain cages.
Comment by Renier — October 9, 2008 @ 1:03 pm |
Mine experience with all those dumb arse mother fuckers will be a book. It all took place over 3 decades. I can’t stand the bastards when they try to force their superstition into my life. These days when some idiot with twinkle starts in his or her eyes walks up to me and asks me: “Have you heard the good news?”, I say: “Yes!!!!!!! There is a HUGE special on Black Label at the liquor store!!!!!! I am on my way there now!!!!! Do you need a lift too?!!!!!!”
Comment by McBrolloks — October 9, 2008 @ 3:21 pm |
These chronicles can always be posted on an online website, which makes it easy to ad more, and it will be free for anyone to read.
Comment by McBrolloks — October 9, 2008 @ 3:27 pm |
It will totally confuse the fundies, because they won’t know where to go and protest
Comment by McBrolloks — October 9, 2008 @ 3:28 pm |
Re #39, I’m in, and ready to out.
Comment by Oubaas — October 9, 2008 @ 5:39 pm |
Ditto.
Concerning publishing, we could do so privately as a consortium of individuals sharing the cost if necessary. I can’t imagine that a small (initial) print run of, say, 3,000 would be unaffordable this way. I don’t think anyone here is under any illusion that this is going to be a million-seller, instead of a limited edition labour of commitment. If it turns into a bestseller, all the better.
I also have a contact at a small publishing house that I did a little work for some years ago whom I’ll quiz about this. They may be interested in going with it, although I doubt it.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 9, 2008 @ 5:57 pm |
Re McBrolloks #43. Thanks for that. I just blew coffee all over the keyboard. In an open plan office.
Comment by Hendrik — October 10, 2008 @ 7:47 am |
Update re publishing: The publisher I spoke of (#47 or thereabouts) has indicated that this is “not really our bag.”
Hardly unexpected, that.
Which leaves the private route, unless someone else can suggest a publisher who’d perhaps be interested in promoting such a project.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 13, 2008 @ 8:36 am |
Good idea, Objective. Please send me your details if you are interested, but I think no publisher would touch in South Africa. Human & Rousseau did not see their way open to publish Geloof, Bygeloof en Ande Wensdenkery. I had to go outside Naspers and NB Publishers to get it published and I think Nicol Stassen from Protea Boekhuis showed a lot of courage to do it proven correct because the bhookwernt into a 2nd printprun within 4 months – not bad for an Afrikaans market overwhelmed by Angus Buchan thinkers.
Maybe first publishing it on the internet will be the best way. I’m prepared to run your “conversion” stories here on this blog. What do you think pof the idea? And who will be first?
Comment by George Classen — October 13, 2008 @ 12:48 pm |
George, Your blog would be the perfect place to publish these.
One point for consideration by the contributors: Should we perhaps refer to the act as a “deconversion”? Although the word does not appear in either the Oxford Dictionary (UK), or in the Merriam Webster (US)I have to hand, the term does seem to be used in this context on the Internet. See ["http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deconversion"]
Another possibility is of course “apostasy”.
Whoever submits first, gets published first – but it will not be me
Comment by Hendrik — October 13, 2008 @ 2:44 pm |
And seeing as the idea is to write some of them in Afrikaans, perhaps the right antithesis to “bekering” should be “ontkering”?
Comment by Hendrik — October 13, 2008 @ 2:54 pm |
Ontkering! Ha ha ha. OK, who goes first? I agree with the term “deconversion” proposed by Hendrik.
Comment by George Claassen — October 14, 2008 @ 3:54 pm |
I’m happy to go first. We just need to sort out two minor issues. (1) Do you want to publish this under the contributor’s real name, or is a nom de plume okay? (2) What ballpark word count are we looking at?
Comment by defollyant — October 14, 2008 @ 6:05 pm |
Sorry, that #54 was me, not my WordPress alter ego.
Comment by Con-Tester — October 14, 2008 @ 6:08 pm |
Ontkering! Good one. I always thought of it as “ontnugtering”.
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Comment by mssmotorrd — May 3, 2009 @ 12:53 pm |